The bank said if I get a letter from the lawyer saying that the application is in the process that I can open an estate account but will only be able to deposit, no withdrawals. He did not leave a will. The bank will simply remove the parent's name from the account upon receiving proof of death, leaving the surviving account holder with full access to and legal ownership of the account. She only gets $60 back because that is what she had deducted every year. Did the TD bank error in allowing this as she was only one of three executors? Financial institution (Questrade) refuses to do so and claims this is against the law (True?). Also, they finally said they will release all the funds via bank draft payable to the estate.? Estate Administrator: A legal term referring to a person appointed by the court to administer the Estate of a deceased person who died without making a Will. What do I need to do with this cheque? Once the funeral arrangements have been made and all interested parties informed of the death, one of the first things the executor must do is deal with the bank accounts of the deceased: Finding out what banks, credit card companies, and other financial institutions the deceased dealt with, notifying them that you are the executor, and determining the details of assets in all accounts. We also offer guidance on tax strategies to maximize your family's wealth over time, managing assets, setting up trusts, and developing estate plans that cross jurisdictions. Instead of avoiding the probate fee, not only does the account still go into the estate, but you may also have to pay for a lawsuit to determine your mother's intention in making the account joint. However, this past week, she received an unexpected check for a substantial amount, written out to my father's estate. Until then I have to ask for a balance and any bills I need to pay out of the account will have to be by bank draft. Thank-you Alyssa. You were correct when you suggested an account set up as "Administrator of the estate of Jane Doe". I don;t know what is happening in this particular estate that might make the executor think that. You may have to show some of these to justify your expenses in the future.Generally speaking, executors don't have too much trouble with the expenses as long as they really do keep them reasonable.Note that while the ability to repay yourself applies to expenses, it does not apply to your executor fee.Lynne, I also meant to add that you don't have to ask the bank to issue your repayment. Per the CRA website a T4RRSP/T4LIF/T4RRIF should be issued showing fair market value on date of deat, and interest earned from DOD until the end of the year. Executors don't have to wait for the grant of probate. Is it necessary to wait for probate to be completed? Take the funeral bill to the bank where your uncle had his funds. He had no will. When they are one and the same person, the executor must only use the estate funds to pay estate costs and debts. Lynne. Having said that, there could be other factors that might affect the situation (there always are). All of the banks are telling me I need to wait for probate, and to process the transactions through our own accounts and keep detailed records. No. I'm so sorry to hear about your son. I can completely sympathize with your situation because I have my own ongoing battles with banks' legal departments on my client files.Whether or not the people at the legal department can read the signatures, the judge of the probate court could, and did. investments of 25k held at multiple institutions), is it right for the bank to request probate for the operation of the estate account? There is enough money in the account to pay the lump sum payments and still cover any surprises that may come up before final tax clearance is issued. It's a fairly small estate, about 80k in RIFF's, chequing account. The estate accounts usually contain the amount of compensation claimed by the executor. I need to know the balance, and I can't get it. In order for that to happen, there has to be a will that appoints you. However, keep in mind that as an executor, your obligation is to wind up the estate as efficiently and quickly as possible. I am her executor and sole beneficiary. Tell him in advance that you are coming in to collect a cheque for the full amount of funds and you expect it to be ready. can i process the estate cheque through the joint account? If a CRA refund is the only asset in the estate, talk to the bank and ask if probate is really necessary under the circumstances. Well, I posted the above,on July 16tth along with the other person who also had issues with Royal bank on July 8th. was all joint or myself as designated beneficiary. If not, you might try escalating your request up through the bank's channels until you find someone willing to actually make the simple change. In the next breath the employee told the other executor, the old account is now yours and you can take the Money and run. (In case my brother contested the Will, I would still get the money). I certainly hope that the bank will verify by looking at the will, as this is what they are supposed to do. Your question is why the bank is refusing to add your name to an estate bank account. My brother lives two provinces away. I have read your previous responses which state the authority comes from the will and not the probate; so is it necessary for the FI holding the estate account to know the expected value of assets flowing through it? I have some Estate litigation lawyers names but want to know if I can realistically get her to replace that cheque so I can have my money. The debts of an estate are paid only to the extent that the estate (NOT the executor) has the funds to pay them.So, yes the executor does have access to estate funds right away, but no, a beneficiary does not. The mistake is just as much yours, as a person under a POA instructing them to do something you weren't allowed to do in the first place.I know this probably isn't the answer you wanted, but that's how I see it.Lynne, Hi Lynne. His house is worth 500k. Opening a bank account if you're not a Canadian citizen. The information contained in this report references market data from MLS boards across Canada. Again, absolutely unacceptable.The situation needs to be cleaned up, and the quicker the better. When the court appointed me as the administrator, her bank account changed from Jane Doe to Estate of Jane Doe. $300 welcome bonus 2. It also excludes financial accounts that already have a beneficiary designated. It is absolutely unworkable for executors.What we do for our clients here is calculate the probate fee and prepare a document that we call an estimate but looks much like an invoice for that amount. The bank has an account for which there is no online access? I am the executor of my uncle's estate. The bank was very helpful ,CIBC, in not having me set up an estate account (funds in account under $3000) as I had a joint account due to his dementia where his money went in and his bills came out of. Will probate be necessary for this? Other banks are also refusing to open estate accounts. Is there a specific issue or problem or situation in your case that would be best served by having the lawyer control the funds? The primary focus of the Account Specialist, Real Estate is to prepare credit applications, actively participate in credit structuring, risk management and client facing support. After someone passes away, their assets and debts will need to be accounted for and managed. The branch manager was also called into the room. Hello Lynne,My mother passed away in February and I am a co-executor along with my brother. I am in a similar situation with no will for my deceased father. I am not happy with RBC at all. All the TD bank did was phone the hospital, and that was good enough for them. RBC has made a royal mess for me to contend with. I am in BC. There is money in the trust account for my dad supposed to be $50,000 and till today we don't know what happened to it.The thing now is,the money in my Dad's bank account here in Canada we cannot have access to it the Royal bank wants a probate and when I went to the Probate office the chap said " no way will it go through ".So what, does the banks in Canada have the rights to our parents money ?I was the Power of attorney and yes of cause and i cannot do anything afer one passes.Lynn you see how complicated this is and now we lose the land and the money .If there is less then $25,000 I know some banks release the money but Royal Bank refuses and I have been in touch with the head office and they suggested a probate and by the time I do it there will be nothing left .Please can you help me ?Thanks, Roberta, Roberta, yes I can help you, but not on a blog post. Her affairs are simple and the estate is modest. Is it different when somebody has no chequing/savings accounts? Give the cheques to that person. However this has affected how the tax slips have been filled in. If it is only bank policy and not law, however, I am going to protest this, as my brother was laid off a while back and could really use his share of the funds now. That's interesting. We two are the only benficaiaries. I was joint POA with my brother, but my mother only added my name to her bank assets, explaining to them that she wanted me to have Right of Survivorship on all assets. Hello Lynne.I am the executor of my fathers estate. That costs nothing. Please advise. It's never speedy at the best of times, but it will be longer if there is confusion over who is supplying what papers.Lynne, Hi Lynne,My Step daughter has an estate check for her and my son. Let's say your husband goes into the bank with the will and the bank releases the funds to him with no probate. Most of the time, paperwork comes from a lawyer. I might have to put in a call to a financial advisor I know over there to see what I can find out about this.Lynne. All of her finances had us listed as 50/50 beneficiaries and have been paid out to us, including her bank account of 24000. Question we have just received a cheque to the Estate of my Father, so don't know what to do with it. Make sure the bank realizes that this is the only asset of the estate.Lynne. The problem with joint accounts between parents and kids is that the banks are really inconsistent in their treatment of them. A couple of months pass until her house was sold and the sale closed a week ago. Thx. The 2nd was sent in September from a different lawyer and got "lost in the mail", it never occurred to me with the pandemic and my work to ask to pick it up, I also didn't clue in that she had changed lawyers for the 3rd time without telling me. I received a cheque made payable to the Estate of my son with my name as well. My mom passed in June, after living in long term care for just over a year. Note that the credit union confirmed probate isnt required as the total amount of the estate is around 10,000.Thank you. The final distribution (to myself) was confirmed last year by my lawyer, and I have since acquired some of the major assets left to me. An alternative might be to purchase bank drafts rather than cheques. Or do they receive (in my case, beneficiaries are to receive monthy from estate) beginning when the funds are ready to be dispursed? Thanks. I suspect you may be right that someone has made a mistake and is stringing you a line of BS to try to cover it up. No, not that I know of. With great rewards, interest and unlimited and free transactions and Interac e-Transfers, it rivals and beats all other youth accounts in the country. She has no real assets. Open an account online in about 20 minutes or apply in-branch. Doing otherwise is theft or fraud.Lynne. Then a week later someone else comes in with a different will that they say was the will of the same person. Hi Lynne, i am sole beneficiary of my mothers estate. Start Schedule A by plugging in the grand total from the final Inventory of Assets into Schedule A. The only thing that could be in issue is the validity of the will. The house had a secured LOC on it and we handed over the keys after telling bank no more payments would be made on LOC. I don't know of any law that prevents a bank from rejecting any particular ATM deposit. Thanks, Yes, the executor has complete control over the bank account.No, the executor cannot take executor fees until either the beneficiaries agree (usually by signing a release) or the court orders it.Yes, the executor can close the account at any time, but it would be pretty unusual to close it if there were still estate funds.Lynne. The lawyer suggested it might be more efficient to use the law firm's trust accounts. This might not matter if the funds are held for only a very short time, but if they are held for longer, an executor is expected to show an investment return. Have I waited long enough and should I get a lawyer and start litigation including the passing of the accounts? Use any other estate funds you have been able to gather, such as the CPP death benefit or the sale of household contents. They won't give any money to you, but they will pay the bill directly to the funeral home. Is it legal for my mother to deposit that cheque into that joint account.? I know, everyone thinks that this joint account thing works, but they find out differently when the parent passes away. My sister and I were listed as co-executors and my sister has since renounced her position as executor (legally documented with the lawyer that held my mothers will). Hoping you can answer my question. He had a will and I am his sole beneficiary. Hope this helps others who deal with RBC regarding non probated wills. If that gets around, that bank is going to see every cent owned by a deceased person put into estate accounts in other banks that are more reasonable.Lynne. Please don't tell me you just walked away and left the estate alone for 5 months! CIBC requested personal ID documentation for each and every beneficiary on the account which I supplied although I was hesitant to believe the Money Laundering Act actually requires it. I know you want it to just be easy but there are procedures built into our system to protect people. we are now waiting to hear from CRA, and if everything is ok he will apply for clearance certificate. Whether or not he exceeded his authority is a matter for a judge in a civil court to decide so it muddies the water. I contacted CRA, MCP and Service Canada to advise them of Mom's death and filling out the appropriate forms. The simple answer is that the people in the branch have no idea how to deal with estates. Hi Bob,I would be very surprised if the bank did not allow you to sign a letter of indemnity under the circumstances. It is not a good idea to mingle estate funds with personal funds. I went through the lawyer for a probate. The cheque is not payable to your mom, but to her estate. bank accounts (includes foreign banks) Shares, bonds, trust units, options, mutual funds, TFSAs, RRSPs, RRIFs vehicles such as cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, trailers situated in or outside Ontario goods or material They will continue to do this until a beneficiary sues them. Is this a common practice? Why do I need an estate bank account? To open any bank or investment account, you'll need a taxpayer ID number for the estate, which is itself a taxpayer. Sure he had a will but most of the time the banks will want the will to be probated or other supporting paperwork to be provided. I have survivorship of this account. A joint account is not meant to be used to avoid probate so the courts have cracked down on it.In my view, given all of what I've said here, no, you'd never get them to pay the probate fee. After the death benefit from CPP was deposited, I as the executor, got them to make a money order for each of the 4 children (self included) to divide estate funds up and closed the joint account. Your mother's money wasn't safe because your brother is a crook. The probate is their indemnity against the deceased's funds to the wrong person. I have set aside more than enough to cover that expense. I know this is an old topic, but I have a question. An estate representative administers a deceased person's estate. Hi there If I was listed as executor as per cra but they dont give you anything to prove that, can I still open the account get the refunds from cra and close the account without this probate? Neither of those situations is ideal, but you can only work with the situation you're in.Lynne. TD does not and all transactions must be processed in person. Earn a $300 welcome bonus with a new bank account 2. The sole real asses, a condo, sold in December of 2018. I paid the expenses (probate fees etc) personally as I was not allowed access to the funds. which the individual transactions. I have had a couple cheques come to me for the estate. My mother learned the hard way that her money was not as 'safe' in the banks as she thought. Is there a dollar limit for banks? I was told in the beginning the less money in the account the easier it will be to close out I have a felling this isn't so. The TD bank allowed my brother to even close accounts, and cash in GICs and made all assets payable to him. My financial institution says that they are not allowed, but will make concessions for burial costws and probate application only. Any advice you may be able to offer would be appreciated. The bank says that the 3 kids are the beneficiaries of the RSPs so why do you feel that you can legally put that money into the estate account? Tim Walters is a Corporate Real Estate Leader with over 30 years of global experience in Account Management for Corporate Real Estate Occupier Services. Will taxes apply to your estate in Canada? The duty of the executors is to maximize the estate as best they can. He had all the necessary documents but I guess in their mind the estate was not worth their time. Do I have any rights? Subject Matter Expert/Leader in Portfolio . Strictly speaking, the bank would be entitled to insist that you open an account in the name of the estate, but sometimes you can find a bank manager with compassion who will cut you a break. You can close it if you want to.You haven't said who the beneficiaries of the estate are. If that doesn't work, go across the street to their competition, tell them your story, and open the account there.Lynne. Don't let them dictate what is appropriate for you to do, when you are the only one who bears responsibility for the funds.Lynne. I suspect what they are talking about is that certain beneficiaries, such as spouses, usually have 6 months to make a claim against an estate, so executors usually wait out that time period. My dad passed away and has no will, no assets, no liabilities, no bank account. On to your question. I did not get a call back. There was no need to set up an estate bank account, as all three banks released the assets prior to my mother's death. My three sisters and I are the beneficiaries, however my mother had no assets and lived with us. It's now over a year since our relative's DOD and delays are almost all due to the executor's actions or lack thereof. If he will not clean it up voluntarily, you might consider asking the court to remove him. Have a great day. Can it be deposited into this account. One is to pay for the funeral up front and reimburse yourselves after the house sells. Lynne. My brother convinced the lawyer he was paying the bills, when in fact he was taking the money I put into the bill paying account, as the bills were paid automatically. I was hoping to close it out so there will be final closure to his estate ( there is not much to it ). to the bank and they should open the account with no problem. We have updated this page to reflect the transition to the 2021 version of the National Occupational Classification (NOC).This means that the occupation "estate secretary" was moved from the group Legal administrative assistants (NOC 1242) to the group Legal administrative assistants (NOC 13111). As of now he has 2000.00 in the estate account and I have a death benefit cheque to deposit. Those people actually DO know their way around estates really well. Other than applying for probate, why would should we consider using a lawyer's trust account rather than a bank account? This gets more frustrating by the day as I hear more and more stories of banks requiring random and irrelevant paperwork for estates.If they are being obstructive they obviously don't want your business so why not take it elsewhere. Do I still need to open up an estate account for tax reasons or other? No, there is no time limit specified anywhere. One lawyer told my mother, that she had a case against the three banks, but of course she was dying and had no money except for her pension, which he took, convincing her he had made a deal for my brother to return the money, and pay thousands in legal fees, to the lawyer. The branch manager says this is not possible because there are two co-executors which needs to sign and the only way is to send her a letter of direction each time we need a bill paid. Part of the probate process IS verifying the will, so you can do this all in one step. My sister was POA for mom. When I do here final tax return for this year, I believe she is only entitled to Ontario tax credits and GST. She might have received wrong advice from a lawyer or from a banker. Doing so is giving away money that belongs to other people. Hello Lynn,I'm setting up an estate account for my mother. I asked to see the documents and they refused to show them to me and also refused to give me a contact name and number of the registered office because I am not a member of the credit union. My context for the question was a little different: an estate account with two trustees specified in the will who are to pay bills for someone in a house who is not being given direct access to the money. I am the executor to my deceased elder sister's estate. My bank, BMO, charges nothing for an estate account. Is this an honour system, or does the bank verify estate accounts by looking at the will? Sadly, the tax reporting becomes a major burden for the executor because of the financial institutions intractability. My mother being executor & beneficiary of all his assets, we did not think probate was necessary, so no application has been made. I assume what is going on is that your husband was the sole owner of the funds. At least, that's their point of view. A couple of weeks later Mom passed away. Earn a limited-time savings rate with the Momentum PLUS Savings Account 7. I have all the receipts and this will be documented in the final accounting but I realize this may not entirely be legal. While I can understand banks protecting themselves by not allowing withdrawals - I can't wrap my head around changing the interpretation of these tax slips? i have a will, am the executor, and can open an estate account if necessary. Having been executrix of my husbands assets 30+ years ago, I should have known better; he had accounts at both CIBC and a smaller one at RBC. Does the annual audit of accounts reflect this inaction? I'm frustrated just reading your note; I can just imagine how frustrated you must be. Please go ahead and post it. Anyone can make a mistake but that's not a mistake; thinking they outrank the court is arrogance.As for not telling you about the problem they were having, yes, they should have told you. I think that's all they've been used for to date. Yes, I would expect that you would have to obtain probate to deal with the account, due to the high dollar value. Once you are proven to be the executor, the bank has no control over what you do with the money because they bear no liability. Contact the financial institution for more information. These accounts are useful to avoid probate and are common in the US. As the executor I am just starting the estate work. Not at all a fan of RBC, in fact in the process of switching banks myself. Also because the will has not been probated and I am not willing to go through the paper work and trouble to do so what are my options for closing this account next year. Hi Lynne, If the executor is also the beneficiary do they get access to the funds right away since the financial obligation will come to them regardless? What sort of resistance am I likely to encounter from the bank when I try to close them? Both executors should be on the account. The estate or other eligible individuals may be entitled to Canada Pension Plan death benefits. He banked with Scotiabank, and they are telling me that they will not transfer money from his accounts into an estate account with another financial institution. In particular, the bit about being listed as executor per CRA. He had a will.. I was then told a few months ago that it reverted back to the estate because the change was made too close to her death and I have been asking for answers on this for months and finally received a reply that there were more recent documents that changed it back to the estate. My mother-in-law passed away one month ago, she was in an assisted living apartment. He was suppose to prove to the courts he had no money, but failed to do so, and a lawyer stated he would inform the courts of this, but I needed to pay him $2,000 first. If you don't have to go through probate, then by all means, don't. Since I am sole beneficiary and will receive the cheques to his estate, how do I set up the estate bank account. Be cautious about disbursing funds until you have 100% control of the situation and know for sure what's out there.LynneLynne, Hi LynneMy mom passed away about a year ago, my sister and brother and I were all executors. Plug in values from the estate account into the appropriate schedule under the correct category. This might include a home, car, bank accounts, or jewellery. I know this because I spent 7 years at Scotiabank doing whatever I could to help out the front line staff dealing with estates.
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